Roland Frasier – You Can’t Google Relationships

This episode of the opt out life podcast is me, my friend. And one of our other friends. This is Nate from the opt out life. I’m joined by Dana as always. Hey, everybody. Hi, Dana. And we are going to interview and chat with Roland Frazier, he is a local San Diego but he is a very accomplished career, man, I guess that spans a law, real estate, digital marketing. It’s kind of a well known person, actually. And digital marketing. So you may have even heard of him. But it’s a fun conversation, a lot to learn about going from the very beginnings of being a teenager all the way to the top to rancho santa fe and having a fancy house and all that. But it’s still opt out. Right? That’s right.

This is a good opportunity to remind people what opt out is all about. Yes, you know, it was spawned when you and I got together and started talking about the subversive millionaires, the people who are living lives that had opted out of the job. And they’ve done that with side gigs, business, and sometimes real estate. And what’s interesting is to have somebody who’s kind of had the more flashy success that comes from bigger exits, who lives in the mansion and drives the fancy car and has a wine collection and to learn that person still lives in the opt out life,

right, because the opt out life is, as you’ve described it a bit the subversives the people who have found success but taken an alternative path to get there were opt out, me and you we make our income from side hustlers from owning businesses from real estate, investing some of our pillars all based off a book that you wrote my friend called opt out, which is available on Amazon. It’s spawned the opt out life podcast, the opt out movement, and Dana and I have been hanging out together here in San Diego for 10 years after meeting at a networking event, which is apropos as you’ll find in this episode, and we’ve been surrounding ourselves with people like Roland and people like that and we’re doing more and more of it with this podcast we feel that it can reach the ends of the earth and we know it has because we have fans and followers and new people in our community on Facebook and through optoutlife.com and our email list that live in Australia and Maine and Florida and all these places and we love talking with those people passing along the knowledge that we have and more importantly the knowledge of our community and opt out live so as you listen to this story and here from Dana and I know that that’s there and we would love to have you join that over at optoutlife.com or on Facebook sound good will look for you there. Alright, cool. Well, this episode was recorded here in San Diego is the opt out life story of Rolen Frazier

said that every one of us is but the average of the five people were closest to that is to say that whoever you are right now listening to this, you are the sum of your five closest friends,

whether you believe in that saint or not. There’s no question that who we choose to surround ourselves with goes a long way in determining who we become and how our life plays out. And we have to say you’re making a good choice by hanging out with all of us here at the opt out life.

Our guest is rolling Frazier. The reason we’re talking about relationships and averages is because Roland is a master of relationships. He’s built a successful career in different areas of business, including law, real estate, and digital marketing. But above all, he is a collector of relationships. He knows that who you know can matter a lot. If you plan to jump into any business or simply want to win at life. You find the people who are already doing it and make friends.

Look as you listen to Rowan story, you’ll pick up on the fact that he’s got a fancy house and some fancy wine. He travels and stays in luxury hotels. But frankly, he’s earned it. And he earned it by hustling on the streets on the internet and by networking with a specific purpose in mind. And we can all learn from that

he got his real estate license at 18 his insurance license at 19 was doing land deals Not long after. And as he puts it, he just leveled up from there. He went from selling real estate selling to developers so he could resell an entire real estate development. He went from flipping properties to flipping companies. We went from meeting millionaires to billionaires.

So perk up because this guest is going to give you the playbook to raise your own five person average. It’s your turn to level up. Here’s rolling.

Life is back. I have a mustache.

You do. Thank you. It looks good. Actually. Thank you. You know, you’re you’re like a millennial.

So I think I’m like an 80s baseball guy. Like,

yeah, you had a white van and blocked out the window. Yes,

that definitely would fit

you. If you had a mullet and the mustache. It would be creepy. I’m working on them on a little bit. A little bit taken while but uh.

should work on your creepy stare though.

As we go. I’m gonna wait to bring it out on you. And it’s actually Yes, I don’t always look like this. Even though it’s the first time we’ve kind of hung out. But yes mustache. Here. Our guest is rolling Frasier. He is a famous man and he is a man with many interests that overlap with ours, leather bound books for any leather bound books, a large wine collection as we have just brought out a bottle of wine as a gift. And he has told us that he has a wine problem that needs to work on is drinking from maddeningly there’s no corkscrew that goes with this one.

Yes, yes, the date. But yes, we are excited to have you here. Thanks for coming down. Thank you. For a I know you just went on a long fun trip, which we can talk about. But yes, the interest that overlap the internet marketing world, the legal world, the world as an entrepreneur travel real estate as well, not sure quite where to start. But uh. But this being the opt out life tell me you know, actually I was I was reading something that you wrote, I was listening to something that you had set on another podcast. And I thought it was an interesting theme, the importance of surrounding yourself with good people, but people who you want to be like, the value that comes from that, whether that’s through mentorship or masterminds. That’s in some way, what we’re trying to do with the Opt out life, is tell stories of people who are inspiring and inspire people to get out and be around those people. When you think about that as a topic or theme in your life, what do you want to say about it,

I’m always trying to up level the folks I hang out with, I’d like to not be even in the middle level of the smartest people in the room. So to me, the more people that I can find to there’s always someone who is significantly smarter than you in some area. And so I think identifying those areas, and then finding the people who are the best and then finding pathways to spend time with those people is pretty cool. I’ve had a kind of a billionaire collector list that I created of folks that are billionaires that I wanted to spend some time with. And over the last year, I’ve been able to do that with four or five, and I’ve got two more that I should be able to hit in February. So that’s been kind of a cool thing. And I just accidentally stumbled into it. It wasn’t like, you know, I initially was like, I’m going to spend time with billionaires. But when you form an intention, even if it’s not like there’s this giant plan to make it happen. It just seems like over and over and over in my life, that the reality comes to fill in the gaps from the intention and then stuff happens. That’s pretty cool.

Well, give us an example about how one of those billionaire interactions did happen, because I want to ask about how it happened in different phases. But since we’re on that one,

sure. So So a few I was at a friend of mine guy named Ed O’Keefe has an event who asked me to speak at and there was another guy that was speaking there named Jesse itslair. And Jesse is a guy that founded Marquis jets that ultimately was purchased by net jets, Warren Buffett company. And then he married Sara Blakely, who founded Spanx. So through Jesse, I met Sarah and had a chance to bring her into one of our events and Interviewer And then we had lunch and talk, we always like one strategy for me is using a vehicle like you’ve created with this podcast, I always want I have somebody come to an event or something like this that we’ve created, and I’m paying for them. I book them for four hours. And so I do the our thing on the stage or the VIP thing or whatever. And then they have to have lunch or dinner with us. And that’s amazing for Jason because it gets you out of the transactional, I paid you to speak kind of thing and gets you into the ability to have a conversation with them. And so that was one Sarah and Jesse. She’s the I think the youngest female billionaire ever. And Spanx is a I don’t know if you guys know what it is. It’s like a women’s undergarment thing. Then another guy Naveen Jain, who I met through who actually called me out of the blue and said I’d like to get to know you and I was like, okay,

and it just came through other friends of mine who we had spoken. You know, on stage I find speaking to be a really and interviews and podcasts and stuff to be a fantastic way to get to to know people. Another guy came was came as a guest of one of our members at our mastermind, which is the war room and, his name is Howard Panis and Howard sold his e cigarette company, which I think it was logic cigarettes, or something e cigarettes or something like that to Japan, tobacco for a billion in some dollars, and now collects ridiculously fancy cars. And now it looks like I’ll have the chance to interview Richard Branson at our traffic and conversion summit coming up. I believe it’s not done done yet. But it’s in the middle along with john paul, Georgia who just sold his patrol tequila company to somebody for like four and a half billion dollars. So it’s kind of funny. It’s just like, they’re just coming into my life lately, which is exciting. And the people that they know, like Sarah’s texting Warren Buffett while we’re sitting at lunch. That’s, that’s fun. You know, it’s like, oh, my God, when trying to up level into that little higher echelon of nice. No Buffett can text Oh, my God. Yeah. Well, my guess is that someone is holding probably Bill Gates, you know, right. hang out together. So this one.

Yeah. So let’s talk about these things that you just mentioned. For the listeners don’t know you were road traffic and conversion. Sure, give us some background.

Sure. So currently, some of the companies that I am an owner of our we have an event called the trafficking version summit that happens in San Diego, up until 2018, only in San Diego. We about 6000 people there last year. It’s a marketing event for digital marketers. And we talk about getting traffic and how to convert it into business. And we will be in

doing that here. But also will have one in New York and one in Singapore. And then after that, we’ll have one in 2020 in and we’ll move to the convention centers in 2020 also. So it’s really growing fast. My guesses will be in the 10, 12,000 range in 2024 attendees, just for San Diego, just for San Diego. So then going at we have a continental expansion plan to go. So that’s one traffic and conversion summit is an event we have, we have a media company that’s a SAS and, and training for digital marketers called Digital Marketer, and then our of digital marketer and traffic conversion summit. We spawned mastermind, but but now it’s grown probably large enough that we shouldn’t call it a mastermind is just a group called war room of people who are successful entrepreneurs. So in there, now we’ve got, I’d say about 50% of the people are in the 5,000,200 million a year range in their businesses. And the other 50 are in the hundred million plus. And we have two people that have crossed a billion, which is super cool. So we just get together four times a year and hang out and talk about, you know, how are we going to grow our businesses and and get better?

Yeah, a little bit more about how that format is set up. So I because I want people understand like that these groups are out there and how they can be valuable. You’re aggregating all these people like their criteria to apply to be a part of it, you meet a certain amount of times per year, there’s some one of a format, right?

Yeah, okay. We so we look, we’re looking for owner founders, not employees, who are doing a minimum of $2 million a year and have some sort of digital marketing or marketing focus their company, and then we just get together and hang out, and we have a format for the events and everything. But like rice, a lot of it is just kind of probably like, you guys pick people to interview. It’s like, you talk to people. And then if they seem like they’re not assholes, then you have them on this thing. And it’s really valuable, because you can get to that point and feel like you’re on a bit of an island and everyone’s riders Google stuff, and read crap and listen to podcasts. And to get one on one interaction with people in person that you may never find elsewhere. You create relationships, you learn stuff that you wouldn’t otherwise it’s beautiful for, can Google answers to questions like, you can have a Can you need a conversation for that, right? So what’s cool to me is, and this is how we’ve kind of stratified the mastermind or the group is that there’s a lot of different things in a business that is in the million to 5 million range that change as you get into 10 and then change again, when you get to 50. And again when you get to 103, hundred and so on and so forth. And so having people that you can actually spend time with break bread with hang out with Have a drink with get drunk with that have been there before is really cool. And what’s interesting is the people that have been there that are in the higher echelons of that like in the hundred million plus range actually learn quite a bit from the people who are in the lower because they forgot some of the things that got them there got kind of strained out in the bureaucracy ization of their businesses, or in as they’ve gotten bigger, and the red tape centenarian, they’re like man we need to get that’s this some cool innovative stuff that’s going on with those guys. So it’s actually really cool. You can always learn something from everybody. So I think being able to have those conversations in your life is critical.

And it’s great for you guys being the organizers of set of, and I’m sure it’s a nice business in some way. But it probably doesn’t even matter if it makes money do we need to get an extra

much more, you know, we kind of like chuckle nervously that, you know, if anybody ever finds out how much we get out of the business price. Yeah, you’re gonna have to pay us to be

Yeah. And so that is the, the reason that you’ve got a platform to talk to successful people, because you’re using these the mastermind and traffic and conversion as an invite to get people to come speak. Absolutely. And I love your strategy there. Like you get them to come speak. But you buy more from them than that. And then you get some personal interaction to know them. I was just talking to somebody about networking. And how important in person networking is. She’s a woman that runs a podcast, and it was looking for networking. And I said, there’s nothing quite like in person. Because people are generous in person. I think that opportunity for human interaction brings out the best in people

I do to the humanity of getting out from behind your keyboard and computer particular Lee, if you are a solo printer, or a mobile entrepreneur, or, you know, you have an online business, the big deals are all outside that the big deals are always in person. And when I say big deals, I mean, everything from learning the having a big breakthrough to actually doing deals. It’s every time I talk to people, something cool happens.

Yeah, I remember when Nate and I first met, it was at a networking event with a bunch of nerds that were marketing people. And I was stoked to hang out. I remember just seeing people with this direct interaction, solve each other’s problems that you wouldn’t have ever solved. I mean, oh, have you tried this? Did you know you can monetize this way? I know so. And so let me make an introduction. All of these things happen over a drink at a networking event.

Yeah. And that’s why I think whether it’s a formal or informal mastermind, getting a group of people together, and especially if you can be the person that is organizing the group, it’s a really big business hack. How did you get into the world of digital marketing, because as we tiptoe back through your story, I mean, you’re an attorney, you’re in real estate, but you’re kind of in the mix with some of the greatest not only greatest and that they’re most business but people with like, true tactical knowledge, and also a bunch of these businesses through the masterminds interaction with these people that are doing this at the highest of levels. How did you get into that world, I was an early adopter of the internet. I’m a big fan of technology and everything. So I started programming when I was much, much younger. So I got to watch as the internet came into existence, I’m old enough to have seen that. And I have always had an interest in business. So one of the first things I did was, I got together some motivational type people, and put together a group on compu serve, if you remember that long ago. So I’m dealing with compu serve. And then America Online, comes along with, you know, you’ve got mail, and there’s all this cool stuff. And they create these things called channels. And so I called up America Online. And I said, I’d like to put together a channel and I brought together john Frieda and Kevin Wilson, and all these people who were in the beauty space to create a beauty channel on America Online. And as the internet continue to get better and download speeds got better. And you went from 400 baud to you know, the faster and faster and faster speeds. And then finally, high speed, I was able to get into several things. So I bought Nikon school as a domain, because I’m very into photography. And so started putting up photo stuff, I bought that on it calm and make a bet. And then partnered with some people in Antigua and formed internet casinos. And, you know, I mean, so I’ve just been always passionate about it. And what I found was, as things evolved, I was more and more interested in the online marketing space. And I’m practicing law during this time, too. So it was all a side hustle, right. And I found a few people who really seemed to actually be doing it and teaching it. And two of those people were Ryan dice. And Perry Belcher and some of the others were Jeff Walker. And Jeff Johnson had some cool stuff that like was like, Okay, this stuff actually seems to work. And then I would do it. And it would work as opposed to a lot of the people that you hear. And so I decided that I wanted to meet them. And that I’m really big about getting into business with people that I like and thinker are happening. And I had a background of doing mergers and acquisitions type stuff. And so I knew that there was an opportunity that there were so many companies that didn’t use digital marketing that should, and if I could partner with these guys that are brilliant digital marketing, and bring them into the world of like, we could buy a company that hadn’t yet scaled out digitally, put the digital marketing stuff in really, really increased sales, and then flip it for a whole bunch of money. So I went to the very first traffic and conversion summit, I saw that Ryan and Perry were having this thing. And it was it just blew me away. And they were like, so disorganized. It was started at 8am, and went to 8pm, and they never took breaks. And you’re sitting there I go to the bathroom. But I don’t want to because I’m not gonna, I’m going to miss this. Amazing. My hand was all cramped, and I’m left handed. So when you write. as a left hander, you get Englander and land was like totally black, you know, on the side from taking all these notes. And they made this offer and apparently it was the first time it was a side hustle of traffic and version summit, I later found out they were like, We don’t have anything to sell to the event, we’d be stupid not to sell something, I saw a mastermind, what you want to call it, I don’t know, or room. So that’s where that came. I did not join then. And then kicked myself for the whole rest of the year for not joining thinking, God, there’s all these cool people that were in there only 20 people at the time in it. So then I came back the next year with the intention is like, I don’t care what happens. My first thing as soon as I walked in, I was like, I want to join that warm thing. And they were like, Well, you can’t.

What do you mean? I can’t they’re like, you know, you just can’t like, but yeah, I mean, is it sold out? Or what? They’re like, No, we just had printed all this stuff up. Yes.

Oh, okay.

All right. So I joined that, because I have found and This to me is a significant hack for meeting people, just like hiring them to speak at your stuff, and then making them have dinner with you is that if there’s a paid channel of access that exists, then I will take it every single time. And I’ve I’ve done that so many times from if there’s a mastermind, or you can hire somebody for consulting or speaking or whatever, if you can pay them, as opposed to being just another person that’s trying to get something from them, then you get to spend time with them and get their ear. So I I joined the war room, I paid the 20 grand at the time to join it so that I could get to know them. The only reason that I wanted to join was to get to know those two guys.

So Dana, first breaking sitting here with Roland, I mentioned in the intro that he’s kind of a famous guy in the internet marketing world, let alone as we learned that he’s kind of famous in the real estate world to he’s just kind of be friends with all the big name people that I’ve heard of that I want to be friends with. And it was cool to get some of the playbook for how he’s pulled that off. And maybe even more importantly, his philosophy on networking and surrounding himself with kind of a smarter people. I guess, the smartest people he can find the most successful people he can find. It’s good to get that playbook and be told that that’s something you should do. But then he goes off and does it which is inspiring to me. And it’s certainly inspiring to see the end result because it’s making them a lot of money.

Yeah, a lot of our listeners have probably heard our guests reference masterminds in the past, it’s a common theme, you know, the word mastermind came out at Napoleon hills work, I Think and Grow Rich. And the idea is that you get a bunch of smart people together. And you have more than the collection of a bunch of smart people, you have a mastermind you have sort of the collective mind. And these can be done for free. You could conceive of these, and people really did for a long time for decades, get together with other smart people have dinners. And in fact, I think really our first meeting Nate, when you and I got together, said, Let’s get together a group of people. And I think we had 12 people at a dinner table. Yeah, and ultimately, that’s really just a mastermind. But it’s a great way to do more than just network. It’s a way to contribute, to be generous to add to the other people’s lives and businesses and to put yourself around people that you can both help on the one hand, and they are smarter than you who can help you on the other.

Yeah, I think it’s important to note that it’s, it’s just a slightly different tense on a traditional networking situation. I mean, you are getting people together with business, I guess, generally as the main topic, but it’s the opposite of the name tags and the shaking hands, you can call it a mastermind you can call it a party and call and call it whatever you want. But whatever situation you can get into, where people are actually paying attention to listening, sharing beyond the usual bullshit about what they do, or what they’re trying to sell. That’s when that kind of magic happens. Travis Houston, good example, recent episode where he had his dinners that he hosts very similar to the ones that we put on that grew into a bigger group, it’s it’s just finding that thing that like, makes the switch go off, where people aren’t trying to sell something, or there because they feel like they have to be there because they want to be, and they’re there to share and rowland’s a master at finding those situations. And, and also, I guess, making those conversations happen with the right people. I think as you listen to him, you start to figure out that he finds ways to get in the room, but also to to become a person of value and just say something interesting, you know, he’s not trying to force the issue. He’s not trying to make a quick win or a quick buck as he meets these people. He’s making friends that always comes back to this, like, what would you do if you just had a really actually build a relationship with someone? If business is the setting, you’re going to talk about ways that you might help with their business or just ask about challenges that they’re having that that’s how that stuff happens.

Yeah, now we’ve had a couple of people ask us about creating meetups in their communities. And we’d like to hear from you. If you’re interested in being part of a meetup in your community. We’re thinking about trying to launch some local opt out themed meetups. We’re not talking about making any money on this. But if you want to be a cheerleader, and someone who helps draw people together, let us know.

Yeah, definitely do reach out email me at Nate at opt out live. com. We have had people start to bring this up. It’s been an idea we’ve had for a while because we’ve had so much success and value and found value in having these types of things and are here about in San Diego. But we would love for the opt out life and the opt out idea to expand beyond that beyond us beyond our Facebook group and our learning community into these local meetups and masterminds just branded opt out. So let’s talk about that. If this is resonating with you hit us up and we’ll figure something out.

All right now. Let me bring one thing up, Nate. I was really impressed with rowland’s approach to being willing and even preferring to pay to play and for somebody who’s just kind of getting into the business scene and realizing, wow, you can learn from smart people sometimes you’ve got to pay that’s off putting for some people but rowland’s like no. No. I want to know that I can do that. And any opportunity. He said he gets he sees is that what you know. And of course in successful business person like rolling Egan, right. $20,000 check our dilemma is we don’t want our opt out community to have to pay us $20,000. That would be nice. If you would like to send us $20,000 Check, please do. But we’re always looking for ways to be sure that we’re building a sustainable business and providing value to the community. And so like you and I are constantly pushing out free courses. We have free email courses for side gigs for the challenge. We’ve got a bunch of free courses that people can access. And we’re we’re posting constantly to the community into Facebook. But we’ve also got courses that we’re charging for. So I mean, you know, if you want to know what we’re trying to do, we’re trying to find ways to give our community access to us. That’s a sustainable business. And that means, you know, at some point when we launched the community, that might be 100 bucks a month. But how else can we provide access to people that allow us to deliver tools and be there for them and mentor and ultimately, we’re trying to do that. So if you have an interest in that we want to hear from you as well. I want to know, what can we provide? And what is the financial expectation we’re going to give you as much free stuff as we can, but what value can we bring? And what’s that worth? Let us know. And then I did and they had this thing called wicked smart that everybody who is a member votes on what’s the best thing you know, the best that’s actually working proven step by step, you explain it and then everybody who’s a member votes. And I was like, well, I gotta win that because if I win that, then I’ll get their attention. And I did. And then Perry came up to me afterwards like, Hey, man, hey, we didn’t have dinner, how much you sit next to me. And we have dinner and then we just hit it off after that. Now we’re business partners. So

it’s not even a full awesome

yeah, I do think that it came from that because I mean, you are someone who is an accomplished as a business person many times over, but you’re still there as an attendee interesting what these guys are doing, you’re like, I’m gonna pay my way in and then earn my keep in their interest. I mean, that’s cool.

How long ago was that? That was six year we will have been partners for six years on January of 2019.

So as of six years ago, you were still practicing

now, I stopped practicing in 2003,

how’d you get out of law for those lawyers listening for the opt out opportunity.

So so it’s a side hustle. So when I was practicing, I’ve always been an entrepreneurial person, I got my real estate license. When I was 18, in my insurance license, I was 19 and my securities license, when I was 20 and I was doing syndications and funding businesses. Because I started with real estate. And I was like, Well, I can sell real estate, or I can own real estate, I’d rather own it. So then you get to know the developers. And plus, you can leverage yourself and have multiple listings, if you are working with the developer, as opposed to going out and trying to beg listings from, you know, just consumer tech people. So I’m always looking for centers of influence. So Matt, the developers started selling for them, then said, How are you raising money to do these things? I’d like to participate in that. Well, we do it through these things called limited partnerships and syndications. Awesome, tell me about that. Well, you have to have your securities license for that cool, I’m going to get it took it who any at the time, you had to go to Washington to take it. And I was like, What are the other money opportunities? Well, we have to buy key manager, it’s awesome insurance license, I will sell you the key managers wherever the opportunity to do that was. And then I invested all of my savings in the first development deal. And I think I like a little more than doubled it in about I think it was nine months or so. And so just getting into that had me doing that stuff way before I became an attorney and the attorney I got a degree in accounting and a law degree because my dad who had practiced for several years as a tax attorney said, If you know how to read financial statement, nobody can ever screw with you. If you know what the law is. Nobody can ever Screw it. I was like, okay, so I have no idea what I want to be. When I grow up. I was playing keyboards in clubs. I started playing keyboards out in clubs when I was 15, and was playing in bands until I was about 42. So I was like, I know, I’m not going to be a rock star. But I want or at least my odds of being a rock star pretty low. But if I have these skills, as long as I’m kind of have no idea what I want to do, when I grow up, if I just get these skills, then those will be good skills to have. And turns out that they have been so I was doing the real estate stuff before practicing law and doing business deals. Before I was practicing law I got into from flipping real estate into flipping companies, because as a securities thing, you find out that there’s a whole lot more money in the investment banking space than there is in the real estate space quicker, easier and more interesting.

Do you still have your real estate license?

No, no, what you find is that they’re Same thing with law. There’s too many conflicts. And then you have to paper around so much. Yeah, so you’re better off to let other people have all that stuff. And then just put the deals together

as real estate investing, ownership part of your plan still get folio? Yeah. Do you own rental properties, commercial

property, I have actually we do flips. And so I have a company that does flips. And then we have a fund we went through the reggae plus process to do a registered offering. And so we’ve funded about I think we’re at 17 million. Now on our way to 50. We did we just took us two years to get approved. So we just got approved about eight months ago. So okay, and then I have Real Estate Software and real estate training. And so I end up in deals where people come to me and are like, you know, a great deal if I can get Yeah, you’re gonna brown for just 60 days. Yeah. And then we do transactional funding. So I found transaction funding to be way more profitable than anything else, because we loaned money to people who need to take title to a property to close on the other deal that they’ve got sold. So our money’s out for about 48 hours. But we make about four points on the money for that man. Yeah,

especially get the deal flow. The Amazing. Were you guys doing flips. You want them in San Diego or

no, primarily with my partner, Kent clothier. His family owns Memphis and but mostly Dallas and Houston okay

yeah man I was I went to one of their small events back in the day because we I’m from Missouri we got into like just flipping and wholesaling they’re just smaller deals great market yeah

yeah and my partner that moving back there and bought a property management companies and started doing a lot of like apartment stuff yeah so we’re working with those guys to help them sell now and we’ve gotten at about 100 million dollar valuation for the company wow yeah and part of it was breaking out again side hustling out in saying what are the things that we can do to create recurring revenue well if we create a property management company creates recurring revenue and that’s you know, a big part of the valuation interesting.

Very interesting. Yeah, Alex, our buddy runs real estate skills calm. He was a college student who have interned with me, and we’ve become friends and he did a bunch of flips and pull sales with me. He worked for Fortune Builders,

another good crew in San Diego make a lot of money on education these days.

But But I think the biggest opportunities within his funds, he’s created several funds now really domestically and internationally. Yeah, I mean, ultimately, you have to get into funds. You’ve got to get outside capital to scale to scale really big,

right? You live up a Rancho Santa Fe.

Why that intention? I mean, I know it’s a nice place but sound like someone who’s I mean, obvious. Some of the things you’ve told us about surround yourself with certain types of people and stuff like that has rancho santa fe going there been strategic in any way and or beneficial in any way?

Yes. Like Initially, it was just a desire to live in a nice place place. And I lived in La Jolla when I first came out here, because everybody was out. Usually, I have to live in the beach. I was like, man, please, so crowded, and I would wake up and I had great views. So my house was every afternoon, I’d put my feet up and watch the sunset over the ocean and listen to the waves and drink margaritas and play the Gypsy kings. And thank you know, this is awesome. I’d even look there was a big window on the house that looked out. And I’d look back into the window and just be like, that’s just the ultimate picture of coolness. And this is amazing. But the downside was in the summer, it was so crowded and so loud, and all the guys would drive by, you know, with the boxes going on all night long. So I moved from La Jolla to Rancho Santa Fe, in 2000, 2000.

And I loved it there, there’s, you know, horses I saw, I see these trees that arch over the highway, you know, over the little two lane roads with white picket fences. And people going by on horses that after slow the car down to let cross the road, I was just like, this place is fantastic. I think this is my kind of place, I think it’s important to live around people who you want to get to know as well. And so being plugged into the culture of La Jolla and then plugged into the culture of the ranch is is a good thing and more things in common. You have somebody that you’re getting to know, the more likely they are to like you. So it’s good to place yourself in that environment. So it’s odd now to me is that I’m having conversations with people up there who are like, Oh, you’re still working?

Yes, most of them are, like, a little bit older. And they’re, you know, it’s a place where people go live when they’ve cashed out again, it’s a, you know, or sitting on piles of real estate with a lot of passive cash flow from that. So yeah, there is a sense of the genteel life cycle of life, my wife and I were having lunch. So we live in a place called the bridges and it’s a country club, and I was having lunch with my wife and this guy walked in with the sun they were having dinner out on the terrace and they walked inside in the middle of their conversation. And as they were by he was like, he’s like, so son, what you need to do is you need to create income assets that will generate income live at your means, use the increased to invest in assets, and then you’ll have all of this and everyone we were just like, that’s really cool to watch the advice given you know generationally back, it’s either social, where you’re not where your guard down or paid channel of access, where you’re, you’re at least open it to me, those are the best ways to approach and get to know people from a networking standpoint. So looping all the way back around to networking. I don’t consider myself a good networker. But I know a whole lot of people. And I’ve managed to partner with the Ingress, Yossi and Frank Kern, and all of these people in marketing in our world of online marketing, who are generally considered to be top people and the opportunities to do that happen, because they’re all in my social circle now. So I think creating that every expanding, deepening social circle is cool. Which is why I think being intentional about where you live in Hangout. Makes sense.

Alright. So there’s all these people out there that are selling the fantasy of Lamborghinis and mansions they’re selling the life that frankly you probably are entitled to live and they’re saying just follow me on the guru do these things and you’ll have all this shit I’ve decided that to help that market because it’s a big market of those people I’m developing a Lambo wrap for key is

just basically love it around, whatever you’re an expensive car as. And then you can take your shirt off and pose with your arms crossed. And

I mean, for those that are listening to this, we’re selling the opt out life we’re selling a version of life that puts you in control of your time and money. And I think that the reality is, people living out in Rancho Santa Fe have the opt out life and many of them have built their way to that and have the assets than to live this life that is more posh and luxury. But it all starts more humbly ban what you get sold when you’re looking at these sort of like online gurus, right. I don’t think many

I don’t have data to support this. So it is completely will take an anecdotal evidence. Yeah, exactly is it is completely anecdotal. But I don’t know anyone who has bought one of those programs and use that to leverage themselves to great wealth. I think it’s nice that those things exist for people to see that there are opportunities beyond where they are. But I think that a lot of those I know for a fact, actually the a lot of those things are from people who have either not been successful themselves at doing and therefore teach or who were successful at it when it worked for a brief moment in time, a few years back. And so now they realize they can’t do it anymore. So they teach it. So it sucks Is it a lot of people buy into that and then spend money on those programs, and then climbed the ascension path and end up hundreds of thousands of dollars in that they could have just done some simple, cool little business along the way and made a whole lot more.

Alright, so that’s what I want to get to what should somebody do?

So it’s a really good question. And I think about it a lot. And the two things that I believe are the very first is the side hustle. So a logical side hustle, have something that you like to do, or that naturally evolves out of the thing that you’re doing now makes a whole lot of sense. So if you are doing something that you actually like, now, then leaving the employment of whoever you’re working for, to do it yourself. But starting on the side to me, makes a whole lot of sense,

then I love that Roland comes in and starts talking side gigs to I mean, we’re getting all the school mastermind talk. And yeah, he’s a fancy, successful guy. But I think he actually really believes in this, you got to start off with a hustle. And everything starts as a hustle. And he was kind of speaking to some of our principles. We talked about side hustlers, all the time, because we’ve arrived on them as the universal starting point for obtaining the opt out life but also just like exercising curiosity and finding these gaps to to make money in an alternative way. You have to get a side hustle enrolling, actually, as you listen to a story, you realize a lot of things that he’s pulled off come from just throwing something out there, starting a website, going to an event, deciding to pay to be in a group like this all leads to these just like dinky little things that he’s testing out, exercising his curiosity, and it often falls under this umbrella of side gigs. cool to hear that a big, big success. Good say that’s where he would start. And that’s what he continues to do. Even though he’s like, in his 50s and has a lot of money. He still like doing hustle.

Yeah, we cut it out of the interview. But he’s got a cool hustle that he’s working on right now. That has to do with like, buying Instagram accounts. Yeah, I mean, he’s still just like in the game, looking for those muscles. And then he’s got so much business experience. Then he tries to figure out how can he scale those things. So it’s really cool. He’s actually talking about doing a mastermind around five need side gigs that can scale. So that’s a cool thing that will check back in with him later. But he’s teaching us a lot here through his own experience, and has been side hustle. And I think since he was a teen, but he’s got the site. So we started while he was a lawyer, that was to provide paralegal services. And it turns out, we’re going to hear about some trials and tribulations in his law practice. But that that little side hustle has grown every year for over 20 years, and sustains him. I mean, he said, he could stick it live on that side hustle alone. And it started with something that he just did that he realized there was a need for that he had the skills for that he liked to. So it wasn’t a burden for him. And he just tried it. It worked.

Yeah, it came from his career, his job, we talked about the power of your job, and having a different viewpoint. I mean, if you’re a practicing professional, it’s licensed in something, and you’re you own a law firm, or your partner in a law firm, or just working at a law firm, it doesn’t really matter, you’re working in a place and doing something that requires a skill and you’re coming in to contact with customers and situations. And he just kind of saw a need, I think he was trying out something else. And realize that now, this might actually work better, like people are looking for this sort of service, it’s not one I want to provide. But I can set up a service for it and make good money. And that’s just it’s the same thing over and over. It’s like looking at your situation with a slightly different viewpoint. And being willing to try something, it is crazy that he could pay for his life right now with that thing that he created 20 years ago. And it’s actually what we talked about a lot to, or Dana and I saying that even the reason we can do the opt out life because we have similar things like that, that are paying the bills passively. So we can sit here and record these podcasts and hang out with all these cool people. It’s making all of this possible. And whether you think that’s cool, or crazy, or just interesting or not, you should be doing it for yourself. And we’re giving you more and more of examples of people that have pulled it off. And it’s just finding that need exercise. And that curiosity being willing to take a bit of a risk to make it work.

Yeah, and I like the part where he’s talking about how once he’s got a side gig that’s working, he looks for other needs that are connected to that. So if he’s got a side gig that’s working, and they build software for that, boom, he’s got another side gig selling software. So he’s not going far afield and coming up with some crazy novel idea, or, you know, trying to invent the next way to slice bread, he’s staying close to his expertise. And then within that gig, taking what works, and then leveraging that into additional side gigs.

Alright, so let’s hear a little bit more specifically about that specific side gig and what else he’s done to find more and continue to leverage these even as he’s become really successful. The second thing is actually the Find a need and fill it, which to me was the most frustrating thing people would say, Well, I don’t see any needs, what do you mean, find what need ever there’s always there’s everything already exists. So I’m never going to, you know, unless I invent Facebook, I’m never going to know how to do that. But what I’ve already I realized is that there are needs within sub niches of markets. And what I mean by that is, if you’re doing something, and this is what has happened with almost every business I’ve done, so I’m practicing law as an attorney. And I think there are plenty of people who come to me who can afford or don’t want to spend what I charge as an attorney to do the things that I do as an attorney to set up corporations and keep them up and all that kind of stuff. So I started a side hustle as an attorney, doing paralegal type stuff for way less than attorneys did it, but doing it for a lot of people instead of a few people. And that business took off. And that was 23 years ago now. And the business still grows every year and provides me like that business alone could keep me happy for the rest of my life. And if I hadn’t said as this thing I’m doing this thing I do for work where after show up in a suit, and help these clients and charge them a lot of money, hey, there’s actually an opportunity over here. Now, there were other parent legally type companies, right. And I started one online also about the same time that that they started Legal Zoom. Me too. Yeah, but I did mine through direct mail instead of online. And I still do to this day. So what’s cool is that there is a side hustle need that exists in everyone’s life, that if you are attuned to looking for the opportunity, and the need, it is a more logical path than just throwing up your hands like I did for, you know, 10 or 15 years saying, What the hell is this magical need that I have to find to fill. And it turns out that over and over and over in my life that has happened. So that initial thing with the legal spawned for other businesses that were related that came out of that, and even coming and looking at digital marketer, we had a company teaching people how to do stuff. And that led to well, and also looking at our best way for income, we need to create a software as a service that provides this stuff and does more and provide some additional functionality. So that spawned a software as a service that now is incredibly valuable over there. There were events, tons of events that existed, but traffic and conversion summit came as a result of people saying, hey, we’d like to get together in person and hear this stuff in a really compressed format. So why don’t you guys do that. So we created a three day event that did that. And then that scaled tremendously. Because even though there were other events, there weren’t events that delivered the information so practically, tactically, and actually, as that and then from the necessity of well, and this is random Perry creating this, we need something to sell, we’re going to create this mastermind. Well, it turns out, there’s a million masterminds, but there’s none really quite like ours. Because we focus on that actionable tactical business owner in that upper echelon, you know, hang out and, and spend time and over and over and over there, these needs that that exists. So, so the side hustle, find a need and fill it would be to me the ultimate way for every person that’s out there now to figure out what they want to do. As long as it’s something that you also enjoy doing.

Yeah, I love that we actually have occasion to disagree with the people that say, you should do what you love. Because I think that’s another one of those guru myths. But the free passes, I think you should do what they like they should do. Because if you like it, you’re probably good at it.

And you won’t self sabotage yourself out of it. Right? I I’m completely against, even though I like him as a person, and enjoy drinking wine with him. I am completely against the Gary Vee philosophy of grind, grind, grind, hustle, grind, there’s all this stuff about grind. And somebody told me that now he’s saying you need to create 1000 pieces of content a day. And you can’t have a life if you’re doing that you can have a family and you can be the Elon Musk Steve Jobs that that changes the world and has this amazing impact. But you are going to sacrifice vice your personal life and your relationships and everything to do it. Because that has to be that one thing. And if that’s what you want, that’s cool. For me. I like my family. And I like my kids and my dogs and traveling. And I believe that the greatest thing in life you can do is collect experiences and impact the lives of other people. And I can’t do that if I’m at the office 24 hours a day focused on generating 1000 pieces of content and hire a team to follow me around every me. That’s weird, man, you sit down that guy and you have you have dinner. And there’s six people circling the table videoing everything. It is awkward and weird. like hanging

out the Kardashians. Yeah.

But I do think that you should look for opportunities to fill needs within things that you have some competence of, and do enjoy. And I think if you can do that, you won’t sabotage it. Because if you find yourself spending a lot of time doing something you don’t like. And I saw this, I have the benefit of I practice law for 13 years in the entrepreneurial space. So I saw all these entrepreneurs come in, and the ones that lasted we’re never the ones that really I hate this business. And I hate the people that I do this for. I had hear him say that you can I hear it out there from certain, you know, Guru type people now, too. And it’s like, those people can never be successful, because they’re not happy. And you can be happy doing something. So perfect example. And I know you guys are in a travel. So be fun to hear your thoughts on this. But to me, I love travel. And some of my Facebook, things that do the best are travel hacky type posts, right? So I’m buying an Instagram account that already has a couple hundred thousand fans so that I can do something with that I have no idea what it’s going to be right now. But I know I can figure out how to monetize it. And that will in that I’ll be happy to post there. And I’ll be happy to work in that because I love traveling. Right. So I think that you can do that. And that the Guru’s that. Say that. I mean, I do believe if you do what you love, you will have a much better chance of success than if not, but I don’t believe that if you do what you love, you’ll never work a day in your life. Because there’s plenty that you won’t like about what you have to do was ready to go.

So St. Petersburg. You liked it better than Moscow.

I like St. Petersburg. Better than Moscow. I spent more time there. Because I thought that I was. And when I was in St. Petersburg, the people were like, well, this is very different from any other city in Russia. This is a European city. And when Peter the Great and all of the others ours and folks were creating the city. They hired architects from France and Italy to come in and make it a European city. And it has the canal kind of things like Venice, or Copenhagen and places like that. Amsterdam and so it has that that field, the architectural feel, the people are kind of like the difference between New York and LA or LA and San Diego. Even the people are much more casual, their Moscow’s more fast paced I think people’s guards up a little bit more. Although I found people both places to be pretty friendly. And then the history of that city and the art and the culture. It was more compatible with my European leaning tendencies than what Moscow was. Both were cool, though. I really liked it loved the food, the people, the architecture, language, the art, everything was was cool.

How do you attack a city like St. Petersburg, you land? Where do you stay? How do you collect all this knowledge that you now have a nice experience,

because I’m a spoiled Princess, I stay at the nicest hotel that’s generally in the place. But if I have my choice among a few different nice hotels, I will choose the one that has the most history. So we stayed at the Four Seasons, Lion palace, which used to be a palace, and then was the I think, Ministry of Defense in the Soviet era. So it had lots of cool history to it. And it was in the middle of the city. So it’s within walking distance of everything. So that’s a big thing for me is I want to be near everything that is historical. If there’s any historical center, that’s usually where I want to be. So I do that, and then I will hire a local guide. And then we’ll set up and I ternary of things to do, I don’t like to extensively plan out what I’m going to do, I will because some things have to be planned out like the private tour of the archives of the Hermitage is something you have to get permission to do. And it takes time and all that. So I will in advance, set those things up. And then I will totally cancel everything and walk away from any deposits I’ve made. If some other cooler, more fun thing comes up. So I remember I used to drive when I was using travel agents, I used to drive them crazy. I remember being in Argentina, and when decided is and I found out that I had this whole plan that I had paid to do and everything. And I found out there was this really cool Glacier Park and that I should go down there and go to your Shariah, instead of doing the things that I did to have more of the experience that I want. And I called the dude that was doing a traveling, he’s like, well, I can’t get you back those deposit on like, I don’t care

the chances that is, this is my philosophy of all travel is I’m going to have the best experience I can have. Because there’s a really good chance I won’t ever be back here to me. And probably to the listener, you’ve had a really charmed career as a business person. Can you think of a point where you thought it wasn’t going to happen for you, or a point of crisis that that you push through?

Yeah, I have had a wonderful amount of good fortune and luck and good people. And I have had absolutely awful horrible situations. And those situations are happening all the time. So entrepreneurial ism, we say this all the time. I mean, it’s frickin hard, and you got to have mental toughness, or you will never do well as an entrepreneur, like in the higher levels of success, I think. So we’ve had cash, we’ve had companies that have lost, you know, a million dollars or more in cash during a year, we have had think two years ago, we had to let 165 people go and one of our companies because the person that was running it, as the CEO had already scaled ahead of income, and we lost money and had to fire people at Christmas, because we couldn’t afford to pay them if they kept on going. And there’s companies that might say, well, how is that company going to make payroll this week? And I mean, that happens, like, all the time, or there’s a class action lawsuit, or there’s a regulatory lawsuit. I mean, if I told you two stories, one negative, and one positive of everything that’s going on, even today, you would either think that guy’s an idiot, and stupid and a total failure as a business person, or you live a charmed life, right? Because I have a lot of people that want to go into business and I will everything you touch turns to gold that way. No, no, a lot of it turns to absolutely crap to it’s just that you hear about the gold because that’s what people like to talk about. I mean, I think you have to know that that’s true of everybody. And the cool thing about even like, as I get to talk to more and more greater financial successes that are more iconic or well known, you find that they but for the grace of Fortune would be either in jail or who they are, and it could have gone either way. And I think that’s true for so many people

that Does that makes sense? Yeah,

no, absolutely. Yeah, be fun to talk to some people that are have been in jail soon.

We’re working on that. Do you have a big lesson that’s come out of the failure side of your, of your charmed life that you think maybe our listeners could take away?

Yeah, so you are talking to somebody who has been in jail, I went to to a camp for five months, as a result of my lack of respect for authority, which is a what, you know, it isn’t anymore because I got beaten into submission, but it certainly was at the time, and I

like you more and more. We talked as

I did, as an attorney, I did asset protection and stuff like that. And so I helped people structure officer or things and all that kind of stuff. And I didn’t feel like it was the government’s business, what people did with their stuff. And I wrote letters to the clients and said, You need to do all your reports and all that stuff. But it turns out that when in 2002 or three, or whenever the Patriot Act thing came into being, the government didn’t feel that was good enough. And so that created challenges for me. And ultimately, I had to, I had the choice of facing five years in jail, or agreeing to go for five months. And I mean, roll my dice, and maybe I don’t go but maybe I go for five. And anybody that I had ever seen before, who had roll those dice had not done well, because, you know, the government’s pretty powerful. I remember in law school, you probably remember this in Crim law, I would read I you’d have to read cases. And it would be the United States of America versus you know, Joe Schmo. And I was like God, it must suck to be Joe Schmo. I can tell you, having seen the United States of America versus Roland Frazier, that it does suck to be that person. Because once you’re in that, that place, it’s hard. And that was a that was a place where it was a blessing and a curse. So the curse was I had to go through that entire process. I lost, my wife ran away, you know, most of my friends it was. But the blessing was that at the time, I was spending most of my time practicing law and like thinking I should stop and do all these other things I wanted to do, but not doing it. And when that happened, I didn’t really have a choice. So I stopped and I when I got out, I put my stuff back together. Fortunately, I was a good enough asset protection structure that I was able to keep most of what I got, and ended up actually getting a check back from the IRS for for they called me saying you, oh, 2.3 million. Can you full pay today. I remember that on the phone. Yeah, let me just let me just get my credit card for that. And they end up giving me back 200 grand. So that was probably the toughest thing I’ve ever gone through mental toughness wise, because you talk about opting out, I wanted to opt out in a really bad way there for a while. But what you realize is that tomorrow, unless you you choose to make it not possible for tomorrow to come, it’s going to come. And it’s probably going to come if you have the right attitude with a whole lot more opportunity than you had at the time. And so even in that scenario, I had the opportunity to teach English which I had wanted to do for years. So I taught English to people that didn’t speak English that wanted to figure out how to pass the GED and stuff like in the English as a second as a foreign language. That was a really cool experience. And then I came out clean of everyone who had hung on because I was successful, and with only the people who were really friends who were very few. And it gave me a great new perspective and an ability to start over and then do things that I really like to do a whole lot more. So

that’s awesome.

Yeah, but Phoenix from the ashes. I mean, what a life pivot Yeah, and thrust on you in a way that you didn’t want. I did not

care for them. You would have never made that choice. No, I wouldn’t have and when I burned the boats, and I would not have met my wife now who is just our relationship is so much more passionate and I’m so happy right. You know, as I would not have in the shit you can’t see they said they said Donlon married right is in French and stick in the ship. And when you’re in the shit, you can’t see all of the other opportunities, and you can make some really bad decisions about things. But

if you think about it, all, all of us guy, think about this all the time, think about how many successes you have. And super, super successful people have when they’re very, very young. That means that you don’t have to have 20 or 30 or 50 years to be successful. And you can create that again. And particularly if you’ve done it before, I think success is like a thermostat. If you know that you can hit success, then it’s so much easier to get there, then, if you don’t know. So like for people that are listening who haven’t hit the success they want. The amazing thing is, is that every level of success that you hit sets a new level that’s easier to get to the ever before because you know that you can do it because you have done it. And if you can figure out how to fool yourself into projecting forward as to having already been at a higher level, you can get to that higher level so much faster. Because you will convince your brain that you can do it because you have done it even if you’ve only done it in your head. And they say that your actual body will only go places that your mind has been before. And I think that’s so profound. Because if you can, in your mind, get to the places that you want to go now, before the reality that you have, and who knows even what reality is gets there, then you’ll get yourself to that place so much faster.

I love that. That’s so good.

I don’t know what else to say. No, I don’t know either. I’ve enjoyed listening to you speak more than any of our previous guests. Honestly, Dan, I’ve long wanted to have someone in this studio who’s been to prison,

right? And we might have some more coming up that people are going to find a really interesting not Martha Stewart, not Martha Stewart. But perhaps more famous, even then Martha Stewart keep an ear out for that on the opt out of life. But hey, I was kind of bringing that up. And just to our friend roll in here as a conversation went that way. And he was like, well, I’ve been to prison. First of all, kudos to him for just straight up saying that people would tell us that they don’t want that. Or they would never even say it on a podcast. But it’s it’s cool, because it’s truth and honesty. But it’s all part of the story. It’s an important part of the story. That’s why we’re breaking in and talking about it. Not just because I wanted to make a joke about prison and all that stuff. It’s important because we all face adversity. And that’s real adversity, as he talks about what it really meant. I mean, losing a spouse, friends, family money, like, yeah, we’ve got this, you know, hour long conversation with this speak enough success and the opt out way. But you know, if we interviewed him, and I don’t think you’d be so cheery, and who’s knows where you know, how the next 16 years would have played out at that point, we’re getting the benefit of getting, like, how he turned it all around, and turn it into this success story. But it’s not always like that when you’re going through it. And it’s cool to hear that even someone who’s had a bit of a charmed existence, not only we’ve shown he’s earned it, as we’ve said, but he’s also been down

yeah, I mean, when, whenever you get somebody who’s successful, that is willing to be vulnerable. I want to ask that question. Like, what are the challenges because failure is part of success. All of us that have had some successes have had some failures. And some of us have had big massive failures. And it’s really important for people that are aspiring to succeed in business and financially to hear the stories that people hit walls that I mean, we be here a little bit of the business stories, he’s had businesses that lose millions of dollars, not everything is perfect and beautiful. So I thought I’d get one of those challenging business stories. Not Hey guys, I lost everything, basically went to prison, and then came out and couldn’t break this law and pivoted my entire life. But what a story because he wouldn’t be where he is, if that hadn’t happened. I mean, maybe he’d be successful but when you’re in it, when you’re in the shit as he put it in French

when you’re mad and

you just can’t always see that when this is over. And you’re two years 10 years, 12 years out life’s gonna be fucking awesome. I think it’s really important for people to hear that and understand that that it’s not the end of the world when you hit a failure I mean, we’re most of the failure we’re talking about our business failure I mean not an entire life melting down and you know the people vs Roland Frazier

Yeah, the state what is there the United States versus a phrase that is pretty intimidating. I definitely frame that and put it on my wall. But yeah, it’s important to point to make it doesn’t have to be prison. It doesn’t have to be a business failure. It could be that you’re not even you’ve never even started a side hustle you you’re dying on the inside to do something, but you haven’t. And maybe it’s a physical thing. Maybe you’re depressed. You know, we get a lot of emails from people that are like being held back by something that makes them feel like a failure, or they’re at a tough point emotionally, and it’s got nothing to do with money, or the law. This should be inspiring to you, too, because it’s just because it’s it’s just just a low point. It doesn’t necessarily mean it has to be so specific to roll in situations. Guess what I’m saying?

Yeah. And I love the story that he’s telling about rising from the ashes without us even prompting, it turns into a probably one of the greatest lessons of this podcast. I hope you were listening to this. But success starts in your head. And this isn’t some like religious mysticism. It’s a reality that that the most humanistic atheist person can embrace or a person who is spiritual that the success you’ve got to believe it in your head and in some ways, you’ve got to trick yourself into believing that success is going to come that you can do XY and Z and then your body obeys and I have this all right it’s corny but I’m gonna I’m gonna put it out there and maybe I’ll get some like people poking fun at me It’s late the episode it’s all right so there’s still with us here for Harry Potter fans Harry Potter could not cast the Petronas because he just didn’t think he could until because of the time warping machine and for true fans I don’t remember so you criticize me for that he’s turning back time during forward time he he sees himself casting a PETRONAS once he sees that he does in the future he realizes he can and then he does do see that the idea is that once you embrace the reality that you can do something, then you will do it and Roland is is living proof of that. And it is a philosophy that has driven him to success. And it’s something I think people should really get ahold of whether you’re starting your first side gig where you’re going through the shit yourself right now, or you’re living high and you need a reminder that you can do better. You pull that together nicely.

I like it.

Okay,

if you’re a Harry Potter fan out there, come join the opt out life. Dana is I guess, apparently a very big fan of Harry Potter immediate media.

read the books a couple. Okay. Okay,

well, we’ve got someone here for you. And if you don’t like Harry Potter, come hang out with Nate at the opt out life. Either way, it’s good that’s why we got a two headed monster here. And Joking aside the point I think has been made and I hope you’ve enjoyed this conversation with Roland follow some of his stuff online to don’t go over to opt out life. com only check him out digital marketer or just google him because he’s definitely someone that you should keep tabs on if you’re into this stuff. Alright,

opt out.

I want to ask you something quickly as we wrap up as man who’s traveled to 150 plus countries, and also someone who deliberately places himself in locations for all the reasons that we’ve listed for personal benefit, business benefit for life fulfillment, all these things you’ve chosen San Diego, we’ve chosen San Diego. But if you had to choose a new place to kind of start over which kind of makes it sound kind of lame, but you’ve been around the world, you wanted to place yourself in a physical location to start over and create a new sphere of influence and be surrounded by people that you want to be surrounded with.

Where would it be? It’s a really good question. And it’s one that I imagine you both explore very often given your personalities as well. We exit at a company about six weeks ago, and my wife wants beach house. So we were thinking, you know, well, let’s get a beach house. And I like water. And for her a beach house could be like camo or it could be, you know, the coat desert, it could be here in San Diego, on the beach, you know, four miles from where we live. So we’ve literally looked at thousands and thousands of houses online, and hundreds and hundreds of houses in person all over the world trying to make that decision. And to me, it would vary depending on what I wanted. Because I want to be able to do stuff. So I like Europe, because there’s 48 countries that are basically a train ride or a very short plane ride away. That’s interesting. And that’s probably the greatest level of cultural diversity. Because so many of those countries speak foreign languages and have different cultures and different histories and all that. So I like that from an explorer standpoint. I also like the idea of extreme out there away from everything as well. But I also fear that that would take me too far away from the thing that I love doing business. And then weather wise, I love the tropical but I’ve been to Africa in the winter Iceland here, Russia, I don’t know how many places that are supposed to be cold this year. And I’ve never even been able to wear a jacket in any of them. So that kind of pisses me off. And I’d like to have some weather so I can at least wear some jackets. So it kind of just depends on all that if I was doing it just for comfortable lifestyle, San Diego, Cape Town in maybe Bali are the places that I would say have the best weather and like I would just enjoy being able to be out and doing things. But if I was looking from a business opportunity, which I can’t help but doing I think that primarily right now Brazil and China and Russia would be tops on my list. I’m not super huge on Chinese culture. It’s just that the closeness is not it’s you know, great people but like no personal space riding on the subway fortunately being a little bit taller than everybody else there you know, is it also an interesting experience was already here in Europe here but my god it’s so close and India same thing huge opportunities but so close. So I would pick Brazil and and Russia probably as my two biggest conglomerations of people who speak a common language where there’s tremendous amounts of opportunity that I think you could go and build a heck of a business. And also MUZZIO in some places in Brazil would be fantastic to live. And I could certainly live in St. Petersburg, even if it’s a bitter cold winter although 60 degrees,

right. So digital nomads and location independent entrepreneurs Listen up. Cool, cool ideas. Roland, thanks for coming on.

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